Nuclear weapons aside, chemical weapons are a close horrific second, and they are WMD's in their own right, especially when prepared as rocket delivered weapons. The idiocy of detonating rockets with nerve gas in the midst of a huge concentration of allied troops is another matter entirely.
My apologies for jumping off on a relative tangent. TBH there were so many leadership-based lies on both sides of the Atlantic, and most annoyingly, none of the murderous perpetrators were brought to justice. Alistair Cook still wanders around with Tony Blair living it large. Jack Straw, who signed David Kelly’s murder warrant has died without being charged. There’s much emotion still raw, and no further justice, hence Mr Kean’s paper being so poignant that history is repeating by our leaders and elite starting the process again. Just like the original apathy to Putin’s invasions has cost similar needless deaths, and various other Nazi-like repressive activities eroding free speech and the ability to protest. It’s a horrible world at the moment.
So Janelle, you suffered a loss in Iraq. I am sorry for that. Iraq had no ability or intention to delvier sarin nerve gas, which you say there was, to the rest of the world. The whole reason made by by Cheney and his neo-fascist clowns was not to "take out the sarin gas" but to remove the nukes. I am sure you fell hook, line, and sinker for Condoleeza Rice's "mushroom cloud rhetoric." That sarin gas could have been taken out with a tactical strike or a special forces mission--it didn't require an invasion of Iraq and the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the chaos that prevails today. You don't think that the invasion of Ukraine is related to Iraq? Also, if you are so generous in your labeling of sarin gas being a WMD, are the assault rifles that now terroize America also WMDs?
"Diddly squat"? One of my dearest friends died from Sarin nerve gas exposure. I don't think that is diddly squat and I am sick of armchair experts that haven't actually dealt with reality.
Sarin nerve gas IS A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. It killed one of my best friends and contributed to the death of many others. You are an arrogant academic without any connection to reality.
Mea Culpa. I wouldn’t even call myself an expert though I can definitely sit in an armchair with some skill and exquisite laziness.
As I say before, you are not wrong. And given your very painful loss, I can only humbly apologise for being so insensitive to your point of view.
My point of Diddly Squat was in relation to the original postulations of going to war, and indeed the actions to extend and continue the war on terror.
And I’ve had to lose my original response to the Internet as I am still bound by the Official Secrets Act and some of my comments would’ve “crossed a line” in what still a very charged subject.
Janelle is emoting. She has suffered a loss and that is a terrible thing but her reaction to that loss is the same kind of emotion and refusal to critically analyze that got us into that mess to begin with. What Janelle doesn't get is that had we not invaded Iraq under bogus pretenses, her friend might still be alive.
A board-certified Neurologist, I treat a number of soldiers (Wisconsin and Minnesota National Guard) exposed to the inadvertent release of Sarin nerve gas after hundreds of rockets with chemical agents were detonated at the Khamisiyah chemical weapons storage facility in Iran. In my privileged position as a treating physician involved in the actual care and not remote front line "implied expertise" I can state unequivocally that Weapons of Mass Destruction were present in Iran. Neurological, pulmonary, hepatic, hematologic, dermatologic and psychological injuries were sustained by the soldiers that I treated. Not theory. Deadly nerve gas and serious injuries.
An undetermined amount of these chemicals was released into the atmosphere. The Department of Defense concluded about 100,000 Gulf War Veterans could have been exposed to low-levels of these nerve agents.Mar 20, 2020
Chemical & Biological Weapons during Gulf War - Public Health
As a physician I treated many veterans exposed to Sarin after the inadvertent detonation of the Iranian stockpile of rockets at Khamasiyha.
Neurological, pulmonary, dermatological, hematologist and hepatic illnesses due to chemical warfare agents with severe disruption of cholinergic enzymatic functions.
Not hearsay, not conjecture; people harmed and some killed by Sarin exposure that I witnessed personally and painfully.
Sarin IS a WDM, and I treated multiple victims of exposure. Not “remote” frontline (a euphemism for I think that is what happened) FRONT FRONT LINE.
Sadam had been using Sarin bombs against his own population, so having Sarin is not disputed. I think I understand the point you’re making now, and on that basis, yes you’re right. Chemical weapons are WMD, but they weren’t the topic for or reason for US/UK to go it alone and decimate Iraq or indeed use it as an opportunity to degrade UBL. The lie was that Iraq was upping its nuclear weapon ability and more importantly was devising new ways to “deliver” these weapons which is always the most concerning.aspect. Creating a nuclear explosion or manufacturing nasty chemicals is relatively easy. Delivering it in a missile or other mobile unit is another thing, and the bigger concern in terms of weaponisation.
Apologies for missing your point but whilst valid, was not the topic of Mr Keans paper.nor the basis of the lies to justify war.
Exactly, David. Neither Rice nor Powell were talking about sarin gas. The "yellow cake" was not going to be used for creating sarin gas. It was all about nukes which were never found. All of the good work that Janelle has done is to be commended but it does not change the fact that we did not belong in Iraq to begin with.
Deadly nerve gases (like Sarin) and other chemical weapons were present and used in Iraq. THEY ARE WMD'S !!! WTF is going on with all the media? Weapons of mass destruction are weapons of mass destruction, and they were found throughout Iraq...
thank you for your thoughtful response.
Nuclear weapons aside, chemical weapons are a close horrific second, and they are WMD's in their own right, especially when prepared as rocket delivered weapons. The idiocy of detonating rockets with nerve gas in the midst of a huge concentration of allied troops is another matter entirely.
I greatly appreciate your insights and opinions.
My apologies for jumping off on a relative tangent. TBH there were so many leadership-based lies on both sides of the Atlantic, and most annoyingly, none of the murderous perpetrators were brought to justice. Alistair Cook still wanders around with Tony Blair living it large. Jack Straw, who signed David Kelly’s murder warrant has died without being charged. There’s much emotion still raw, and no further justice, hence Mr Kean’s paper being so poignant that history is repeating by our leaders and elite starting the process again. Just like the original apathy to Putin’s invasions has cost similar needless deaths, and various other Nazi-like repressive activities eroding free speech and the ability to protest. It’s a horrible world at the moment.
So Janelle, you suffered a loss in Iraq. I am sorry for that. Iraq had no ability or intention to delvier sarin nerve gas, which you say there was, to the rest of the world. The whole reason made by by Cheney and his neo-fascist clowns was not to "take out the sarin gas" but to remove the nukes. I am sure you fell hook, line, and sinker for Condoleeza Rice's "mushroom cloud rhetoric." That sarin gas could have been taken out with a tactical strike or a special forces mission--it didn't require an invasion of Iraq and the deaths of hundreds of thousands and the chaos that prevails today. You don't think that the invasion of Ukraine is related to Iraq? Also, if you are so generous in your labeling of sarin gas being a WMD, are the assault rifles that now terroize America also WMDs?
"Diddly squat"? One of my dearest friends died from Sarin nerve gas exposure. I don't think that is diddly squat and I am sick of armchair experts that haven't actually dealt with reality.
Sarin nerve gas IS A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. It killed one of my best friends and contributed to the death of many others. You are an arrogant academic without any connection to reality.
Mea Culpa. I wouldn’t even call myself an expert though I can definitely sit in an armchair with some skill and exquisite laziness.
As I say before, you are not wrong. And given your very painful loss, I can only humbly apologise for being so insensitive to your point of view.
My point of Diddly Squat was in relation to the original postulations of going to war, and indeed the actions to extend and continue the war on terror.
And I’ve had to lose my original response to the Internet as I am still bound by the Official Secrets Act and some of my comments would’ve “crossed a line” in what still a very charged subject.
Please forgive my insensitivity.
Janelle is emoting. She has suffered a loss and that is a terrible thing but her reaction to that loss is the same kind of emotion and refusal to critically analyze that got us into that mess to begin with. What Janelle doesn't get is that had we not invaded Iraq under bogus pretenses, her friend might still be alive.
My original reply was lost to the infernet.
A board-certified Neurologist, I treat a number of soldiers (Wisconsin and Minnesota National Guard) exposed to the inadvertent release of Sarin nerve gas after hundreds of rockets with chemical agents were detonated at the Khamisiyah chemical weapons storage facility in Iran. In my privileged position as a treating physician involved in the actual care and not remote front line "implied expertise" I can state unequivocally that Weapons of Mass Destruction were present in Iran. Neurological, pulmonary, hepatic, hematologic, dermatologic and psychological injuries were sustained by the soldiers that I treated. Not theory. Deadly nerve gas and serious injuries.
Khamisiyah, Iraq chemical storage demolition
An undetermined amount of these chemicals was released into the atmosphere. The Department of Defense concluded about 100,000 Gulf War Veterans could have been exposed to low-levels of these nerve agents.Mar 20, 2020
Chemical & Biological Weapons during Gulf War - Public Health
Yeah and the silence even dismissal over troop Gulf War Syndrome cases was pretty unpalatable too.
As a physician I treated many veterans exposed to Sarin after the inadvertent detonation of the Iranian stockpile of rockets at Khamasiyha.
Neurological, pulmonary, dermatological, hematologist and hepatic illnesses due to chemical warfare agents with severe disruption of cholinergic enzymatic functions.
Not hearsay, not conjecture; people harmed and some killed by Sarin exposure that I witnessed personally and painfully.
Sarin IS a WDM, and I treated multiple victims of exposure. Not “remote” frontline (a euphemism for I think that is what happened) FRONT FRONT LINE.
Janelle Cooper, MD, FAAN
Sadam had been using Sarin bombs against his own population, so having Sarin is not disputed. I think I understand the point you’re making now, and on that basis, yes you’re right. Chemical weapons are WMD, but they weren’t the topic for or reason for US/UK to go it alone and decimate Iraq or indeed use it as an opportunity to degrade UBL. The lie was that Iraq was upping its nuclear weapon ability and more importantly was devising new ways to “deliver” these weapons which is always the most concerning.aspect. Creating a nuclear explosion or manufacturing nasty chemicals is relatively easy. Delivering it in a missile or other mobile unit is another thing, and the bigger concern in terms of weaponisation.
Apologies for missing your point but whilst valid, was not the topic of Mr Keans paper.nor the basis of the lies to justify war.
Exactly, David. Neither Rice nor Powell were talking about sarin gas. The "yellow cake" was not going to be used for creating sarin gas. It was all about nukes which were never found. All of the good work that Janelle has done is to be commended but it does not change the fact that we did not belong in Iraq to begin with.
Deadly nerve gases (like Sarin) and other chemical weapons were present and used in Iraq. THEY ARE WMD'S !!! WTF is going on with all the media? Weapons of mass destruction are weapons of mass destruction, and they were found throughout Iraq...